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Isboxer, why is it allowed?

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Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:10:00 - [1] - Quote Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:43:00 - [2] - Quote It gives people who use it a huge advantage over those who don't use the software. The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:45:00 - [3] - Quote Hevymetal wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting. More accounts = More subs for CCP More subs for CCP = More profit for CCP More profit for CCP = More side projects to spend Eve profit on Then the same argument could be used to legalize botting More accounts = More subs for CCP More subs for CCP = More profit for CCP More profit for CCP = More side projects to spend Eve profit on
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:49:00 - [4] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting. Read the EULA AND TOS and stop wasting your time posting crap, we all know about ISBOXER and it is allowed in EVE. There are many things allowed in EVE that were later changed or made against the rules. Isboxer is presently allowed, thank you for stating the obvious. This is a discussion about it shouldn't be.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:51:00 - [5] - Quote 45thtiger 0109 wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: It gives people who use it a huge advantage over those who don't use the software. The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter. Again isboxer is allowed in Eve and they are not a botter. Its Time to Press The Big Red Lock Button again CCP & ISD for lack of content. Says the isboxer.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:53:00 - [6] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting. Isboxer is allowed because it's so brilliant at generating forum tears. No, really it's because it's not botting at all, you still have to interact with the game directly, and the benefit it gives is not as much as you would imagine. It's mainly useful for letting you swap between clients with ease. What about the massive balls of barges, 20, 30, 50 barges all operated by an isboxer, there's plenty of these around, and countless more less extreme examples. How is this any less damaging than a mining bot? The majority of them have learned to use tanked barges, procurer, skiffs, so don't tell me ganking is the answer because it's not.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:01:00 - [7] - Quote Sentamon wrote: What is this "damage" you speak of. They lower costs of ships and discourage you from solo mining, which has been proven to damage brains. I have seen local chat when an isboxer is hoovering up an Anomaly. Normal players are driven away by such people. A prime example is the RISE isboxer in Agal. He got rid of all the other miners because he hoovers up an anomaly in about 20 mintues. Nobody wants to play in the same area as him, players leave.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:04:00 - [8] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting. Isboxer is allowed because it's so brilliant at generating forum tears. No, really it's because it's not botting at all, you still have to interact with the game directly, and the benefit it gives is not as much as you would imagine. It's mainly useful for letting you swap between clients with ease. What about the massive balls of barges, 20, 30, 50 barges all operated by an isboxer, there's plenty of these around, and countless more less extreme examples. How is this any less damaging than a mining bot? The majority of them have learned to use tanked barges, procurer, skiffs, so don't tell me ganking is the answer because it's not. Because a mining bot runs 24/7 without anyone actually being there, and is extremely efficient. Isboxer users are nowhere close to as efficient, have to be there and don't run 24/7. But what exactly is it they do that annoys you? Just ignore the balls of barges and get on with playing the game. I think you've got that backwards. I'm not seeing any 24/7 mining bots destroying ore and ice fields. But I've seen plenty of isboxers doing just that.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:19:00 - [9] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Tch jealousy. If the situation was reversed, and botting was legal. And I was making this thread to try to have botting changed to be against the Eula, that is exactly what I'd expect a botter to say, along with quite a few of the comments made so far in this thread. "Tch jealousy"
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:31:00 - [10] - Quote BrundleMeth wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter. Says who? You? Well what you think doesn't count, CCP makes the rules. Just another whiner... According to the Eula, isboxer breaks the rules that CCP made you may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play Isboxer is 3rd party sofware, and it definitely facilities the acquisition of items and currency far beyond ordinary game play. It allows players who use it to do far more than they could ever do without it. A player isboxing 10-20 or more miners is going to be able to mine for much longer without becoming stressed out from trying to to do too much. A player without isboxer probably couldn't mine with 20 accounts in the first place, if he even tried, he wouldn't last long before giving up.

Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:41:00 - [11] - Quote Prie Mary wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting. Isboxer requires a person to be active and input all commands. Botting is completely automated not requiring any user input. How are these the same? Botting is not illegal because it can be automated, it's illegal because it's 3rd party software and gives a huge advantage it gives over those who don't bot. Isboxer is 3rd party software that gives a huge advantage over those who don't use it. So what if it's not automated, it's still 3rd party software that gives a huge advantage over those who don't use it. Just because it's not automated it should be allowed? Not according to the Eula. It's the advantage given over normal players that makes it an offense. Putting all of that aside, which is already grounds to have ban isboxer according to the Eula, I could even argue that isboxer is in a way automation, the player is using, let's say, 20 accounts. But only controlling one of them, the others are automatically doing everything he does on the first one.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:47:00 - [12] - Quote Belt Scout wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Prie Mary wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Isboxer allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Botting allows a person to farm with far more accounts than they would normally be able to handle, it allows them to farm for much longer periods without becoming too stressed and earn a lot more isk. Why is Isboxer allowed? It's just another form of botting. Isboxer requires a person to be active and input all commands. Botting is completely automated not requiring any user input. How are these the same? Botting is not illegal because it can be automated, it's illegal because it's 3rd party software and gives a huge advantage it gives over those who don't bot. Isboxer is 3rd party software that gives a huge advantage over those who don't use it. So it's not automated, it's still 3rd party software that gives a huge advantage over those who don't use it. Just because it's not automated it should be allowed? Not according to the Eula. It's the advantage given over normal players that makes it an offense. More tears please. I have 40 procurers that all need a carwash after a hard weekend at work. And I bet you pay for those 40 ice mining accounts with plex you buy from the market too. What do you contribute to EVE? Probably play for free, with all those accounts, using up server resources, and driving normal players out of the game. Sounds no different than the damage done by botters, this is just as bad, in every way.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:52:00 - [13] - Quote Belt Scout wrote: Where do u think the plex i buy came from Einstein? People purchasing them from CCP. I help the market way more than you do, thats for damn sure. So you don't put any actual money into EVE, yet you think you are helping EVE just because you use plex that someone else bought? There will always be people buying plex for real money, the more people like that, the better. The less people like you, running 40 accounts that you don't pay for, the better. Thank you for posting by the way, you are a good example of why isboxer should be disallowed.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:59:00 - [14] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Belt Scout wrote: Where do u think the plex i buy came from Einstein? People purchasing them from CCP. I help the market way more than you do, thats for damn sure. So you don't put any actual money into EVE, yet you think you are helping EVE just because you use plex that someone else bought? There will always be people buying plex for real money, the more people like that, the better. The less people like you, running 40 accounts that you don't pay for, the better. Every single PLEX in the game has been paid for at some point by someone. What happens with it afterward is really not the issue anymore. It's not hurting EVE or CCP in the slightest. In fact, someone with 40 accounts makes CCP smile. Doesn't make it fair if those 40 accounts are automated though. Someone with 40 accounts who pays them nothing isn't good for CCP. You need a good ratio of people buying plex for real money to people who buy plex for isk. As more players like him come about Plex prices will continue to rise until eventually the normal player can no longer afford to buy plex for isk. At which point they have two choices, start to use 3rd party software such as isboxer or bots, or quit EVE. 1000 guys such as Belt Scout would have a profound effect on plex prices. I'm sure we've heard from CCP before about how bots are bad for EVE because they drive up plex prices and contribute nothing to the game because they buy plex with isk to pay for their subscriptions. How is this any different from this 40 barge isboxer guy and others like him?
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:06:00 - [15] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Belt Scout wrote: Where do u think the plex i buy came from Einstein? People purchasing them from CCP. I help the market way more than you do, thats for damn sure. So you don't put any actual money into EVE, yet you think you are helping EVE just because you use plex that someone else bought? There will always be people buying plex for real money, the more people like that, the better. The less people like you, running 40 accounts that you don't pay for, the better. Thank you for posting by the way, you are a good example of why isboxer should be disallowed. Actually, there wouldn't be. If he stopped, that's 40 pelx a month not being bought. So demand decreases, thus the price decreases. So people would get less isk for their plex. If all isboxers quit, plex prices would drop a lot, then people would stp buying them as much until a new balance between supply and demand was found. The overall result though would be less plex bought / month, so less cash for CCP. As demand decreases, more normal players will be able to afford to pay for their account with plex and will be able to play EVE rather than quit. EVE has more overall unique players and less leeches only interested in farming isk with their 40 accounts.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:11:00 - [16] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Someone with 40 accounts who pays them nothing isn't good for CCP. You need a good ratio of people buying plex for real money to people who buy plex for isk. Are you being deliberately dense? There is no ratio. The people who buy PLEX for ISK are buying a PLEX that has already been paid for by someone else. CCP gets the exact same amount of money. 40 accounts paid directly: $15,- x 40 = $600,- 40 account paid with a $15,- PLEX: $15,- x 40 = $600,- There is literally no difference. In fact, PLEXing an account might give CCP more money compared to traditional methods. Of course there is a ratio. The more accounts plexing their accounts with isk, the the higher plex prices will rise. You can't say that rising plex prices will be equaled out by an equal number of plex sellers buying more plex to meet the raising demand because it doesn't work like that, and that's why plex prices are getting so high and continue to rise. It won't be long before plex are 1 bill each and it won't stop there. They will keep rising, driving more normal players out of the game or converting more of them into isboxers or botters, the less of these types the better.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:43:00 - [17] - Quote Exactly. It gives the user an unfair advantage, it's against the Eula. And it is a form of automating commands. It's time CCP did put a stop to it.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:55:00 - [18] - Quote Belt Scout wrote: I guess the real difference is the whole "automated" part to running software like this. If you were to look at how a bot works. I bot is following a scripted set of commands. To keep it short, lets just say they are Undock, find rock, mine rock, redock, unload, repeat. over and over and over, all day long until sed bots owner comes home from work and stops the program. Multi software doesnt "automate" like this. It just replicates a command the user inputs when that user presses a key or clicks the mouse over a target on the screen. It doesnt chain commands together, and it wont do anything if the player steps away from the kb. By CCP's own definition, all they want is a human at the keyboard to operate their game. They dont want a player to start a program and leave for the day to let that program run routines from lines of script. The real difference isn't about the number of accounts. Its the presence of a human to interact with the game while the client is logged in. Gaming bots are bad because the user just starts a program and leaves. There is no warm body at the keyboard. Bots are not illegal because they automate input, they are illegal because of the advantage the software gives over a normal user. The advantage in the case of botting software is the automation. Isboxer doesn't automate in the same way as a bot as it requires user input for 1 screen and then the program sends the commands to all of the clients at once, it's not the same, but the advantage from the software is still there, and it's a big advantage. A normal player could not play 20 or 40 accounts farming isk, with isboxer, they can.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:59:00 - [19] - Quote Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: And I bet you pay for those 40 ice mining accounts with plex you buy from the market too. What do you contribute to EVE? Probably play for free, with all those accounts, using up server resources, and driving normal players out of the game. Sounds no different than the damage done by botters, this is just as bad, in every way. Someone doesn't understand how PLEX works. Creating in game demand for plex, means someone else pays for your account sub for a month, and you pay them in ISK. Plexing your account is not "playing for free" it's just a more complicated financial transaction that is non-obvious to crybabies. I understand it all perfectly. If you'd read on before posting you'd have seen that.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:08:00 - [20] - Quote Belt Scout wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Belt Scout wrote: I guess the real difference is the whole "automated" part to running software like this. If you were to look at how a bot works. I bot is following a scripted set of commands. To keep it short, lets just say they are Undock, find rock, mine rock, redock, unload, repeat. over and over and over, all day long until sed bots owner comes home from work and stops the program. Multi software doesnt "automate" like this. It just replicates a command the user inputs when that user presses a key or clicks the mouse over a target on the screen. It doesnt chain commands together, and it wont do anything if the player steps away from the kb. By CCP's own definition, all they want is a human at the keyboard to operate their game. They dont want a player to start a program and leave for the day to let that program run routines from lines of script. The real difference isn't about the number of accounts. Its the presence of a human to interact with the game while the client is logged in. Gaming bots are bad because the user just starts a program and leaves. There is no warm body at the keyboard. Bots are not illegal because they automate input, they are illegal because of the advantage the software gives over a normal user. The advantage in the case of botting software is the automation. Automation is always an advantage so any form of automation in software is considered illegal. Isboxer doesn't automate in the same way as a bot as it requires user input for 1 screen and then the program sends the commands to all of the clients at once, it's not the same, but the advantage from the software is still there, and it's a big advantage. A normal player could not play 20 or 40 accounts farming isk, with isboxer, they can.. This is all i was trying to say. Thank you Good so you agree that it is the isboxer program that is sending the commands to the other 19 clients, or in your case, the other 39 clients. Without isboxer there is no way you could mine with 40 accounts at once.

Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:13:00 - [21] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: BrundleMeth wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: The damage done by an isboxer with many accounts is at least equal to or perhaps greater than the damage done by a botter. Says who? You? Well what you think doesn't count, CCP makes the rules. Just another whiner... According to the Eula, isboxer breaks the rules that CCP made you may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play Isboxer is 3rd party sofware, and it definitely facilities the acquisition of items and currency far beyond ordinary game play. It allows players who use it to do far more than they could ever do without it. A player isboxing 10-20 or more miners is going to be able to mine for much longer without becoming stressed out from trying to to do too much. A player without isboxer probably couldn't mine with 20 accounts in the first place, if he even tried, he wouldn't last long before giving up. Isboxer is 3rd party software that gives a massive advantage. No it does not. Note and understand the words. Rapid keystrokes ISK boxing 20 account does not gain you any quicker ISK then using what a 20 player corp on a mining op would. Stop being an idiot... These kind of threads pop up once every year and it seems it is the same type of morons that fail to understand how things actually work. Since you can't comprehend the sentence properly I will break it down for you You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play You may not use macros that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play Is that simple enough for you to read now?
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:19:00 - [22] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Do you even understand how thing work? Do you? I think you're confused. Why are you talking about a 20 man mining corp? Cannibal Kane wrote: Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would? A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:28:00 - [23] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would? Do you even understand how thing work? Corps do not even come into this. A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster? Explain... Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums. And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time. We are not comparing 1 guy to what a 20 man corp could achieve, we are comparing what a single player using 3rd party software (isboxer) can achieve vs a player who is not using 3rd party software. 1 player controlling 20 or 40 accounts simultaneously to mine is gathering isk at a greatly accelerated rate compared to what he could achieve without using 3rd party software. He couldn't hope to use anywhere near so many accounts without 3rd party softwre. In a way yes, his mining lasers do cycle faster, he is getting 40 times more cycles than a normal player with one account. Collectively he could be getting 40 or 80 cycles per minute with his 40 accounts. This guy probably has more 2 or 3 times more barges mining in the anomaly than all of the other players put together.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:37:00 - [24] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Where does ISK boxing with 20 accounts gain you quicker ISK then what a 20 man corp mining with the same setup would? Do you even understand how thing work? Corps do not even come into this. A player isboxing 20 or 40 accounts is earning isk at a greatly accelerated rate. This is a clear violation of the Eula. You may not use your own or any third-party software that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play How is he gaining isk at an accelerated rate? is his mining lasers mining faster? Explain... Once again.. I will state. Learn how things work before you troll the forums. And it is very relevant what I asked. a 20 man corp with the same setup as a 20 account ISK boxer can do just as much in the same time. We are not comparing 1 guy to what a 20 man corp could achieve, we are comparing what a single player using 3rd party software (isboxer) can achieve vs a player who is not using 3rd party software. 1 player controlling 20 or 40 accounts simultaneously to mine is gathering isk at a greatly accelerated rate compared to what he could achieve without using 3rd party software. He couldn't hope to use anywhere near so many accounts without 3rd party softwre. In a way yes, his mining lasers do cycle faster, he could be getting 40 or 60 cycles per minute with his 40 accounts. And that is where you are making the mistake. Your counting all the cycles together to justify why it is accelerated. IN reallity though it is not. One of the 20 accounts mine no faster then what a normal single does. You are wrong. It is that simple.... do you know why I can forcefully state you are WRONG? Because CCP already stated a long time ago why ISK Boxer is allowed. It does not accelerate or automate what you are doing. You still need to input action manually to achieve something. And it does it no faster on a single account bases then another account. So you can fall on the ground kicking and screaming like a 4 year old in the Toys section of store. You will still not be right. Kicking and screaming? The only one kicking and screaming is you. You've already thrown multiple insults, like a child who doesn't know how to talk properly. The fact that CCP currently allow isboxer is what is being debated. I clearly don't need you to tell me the current stance on isboxer. A stance that could change.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:42:00 - [25] - Quote Divine Entervention wrote: Bots are bots. If it requires automation, it's not the player performing it. The person who wants to run multiple clients should be required to give those clients their orders individually. Using a bot to automate the giving of commands is using a bot. And what's the policy on botting? Ban ixboxers Exactly. They require 3rd party software to send the commands to the other clients, as many as they are running. The effect is the same as botting in every way. They can still multibox without isboxer or any other 3rd party program, but they don't want to, because it will be much harder and they will lose the advantage of having software to send the commands to the other clients for them. Software advantage is software advantage.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:44:00 - [26] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Divine Entervention wrote: Bots are bots. If it requires automation, it's not the player performing it. The person who wants to run multiple clients should be required to give those clients their orders individually. Using a bot to automate the giving of commands is using a bot. And what's the policy on botting? Ban botters Botting is defined by how it works. It is a pure output system. ISK Boxer requires manual input for an ouput. So no.. it is not botting. Input? Output? You're just saying anything to try to defend isboxing. Clearly an isboxer.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.03.24 08:15:00 - [27] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: It'd be good to have similar boxing functionality built directly into the client. Seems odd that we're playing a game that somewhat forces a player to use multiple accounts but with no support for multiple accounts. Led Zeppelin420 wrote: Person A has 20 accounts and isboxer. Person B has the gnarliest comp ever and has 20 clients open and running and is alt-tabbing between them. Both go mining. Who gets more mined. You all know the answer, how is that not some kind of macro/bot program. My final conclusions CCP people need to be government officials they talk the talk very well. Person A is paying a subscription for that extra ability. How about Person A has a 5000 dollar gaming rig. Person B has a 250 dollar laptop. Person A can run 20 accounts easily. Person B can barely run 1 account. Should be we ban gaming rigs then? That would be a hardware advantage, not a software advantage, that's not in Eula because forcing players to downgrade their computers to play EVE would cost them much of their player base.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.03.24 08:22:00 - [28] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Last English statement I saw on ISBoxer by CCP was that they would neither confirm or deny if ISBoxer was strictly speaking allowed instead referring to the EULA. Some ISBoxer functions 100% break the EULA, as it allows macro recording. Which comes under Botting. The client 'modification' it does to display several clients in one window is edge case. As is the click propagation. Since there is an argument that it allows accelerated clicking compared to not using the program, since you couldn't click 15/100 clients manually as fast as you can with ISBoxer. TLDR version Under a strict interpretation of the EULA, ISBoxer should actually be illegal, but CCP have decided to let it slide. Much like Cache scrapping. Isboxer allows accelerated clicking across many clients, thank you. It is the software that is sending the commands to the other 19 EVE clients. Without the isboxer software, a player can not click and command 20 eve clients at the same time. It's obvious why this should not be allowed, it's a software advantage. The player should try to control all 20 eve accounts without isboxer, but he won't because it's impossible to do that efficiently for any length of time. Isboxer is a software advantage and should be against the Eula.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:00:00 - [29] - Quote Batelle wrote: ISboxing miners are good because they allow a lot of mining needed to be done by a few dedicated people, meaning low prices for everyone else. This is only bad for miners that use only a few accounts. Bethan Le Troix wrote: The main problem with ISBoxer use is large mining fleets staying in one or two systems constantly and decimating the belts. Only if you insist on mining your own ore, identifying you as a miner who is sad about competition and low ore prices rather than a serious manufacturer. The same argument can be made for botting. "Botting miners are good because they mean low prices for everyone else." Yet we all know that is not the case, nor is it the case with isboxer.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:04:00 - [30] - Quote Tippia wrote: After all, isboxer does not accelerate any gameplay. Define what you mean when you say it does not accelerate game play.

Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:05:00 - [31] - Quote Batelle wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: The same argument can be made for botting. "Botting miners are good because they mean low prices for everyone else." Yet we all know that is not the case, nor is it the case with isboxer. True... but if you ban the botters they stop mining. If you got rid of isbox with a magic wand, you would still see giant multiboxed mining fleets. Robert Caldera wrote: Tippia wrote: same as any other fleet of 5 smartbombing battleships, since isboxer can't accelerate your gameplay. it does as I pointed out in my previous posting. It eliminates the huge amount of time switching between clients and doing all the clicking by yourself. except for the "huge amount of clicking." You picked a really really bad example of something that requires isboxer to do effectively. I would argue that many of the giant multi boxed mining fleets would disappear. 20 or 40 mining characters without software to send the clicks to all of the accounts at once? Yeah they may try, they would soon tire of it. 40 accounts? Forget it.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:28:00 - [32] - Quote Tippia wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Define what you mean when you say it does not accelerate game play. I mean what it says in the EULA: the GÇ£acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.GÇ¥ It is pretty much impossible for multiboxig, or any other method that relies on 1:1 input, to do that barring outright exploitation of bugs (in which case the multiboxing method used is irrelevant anyway). Isboxer accelerates game play by allowing a player to farm with far more accounts than he could normally handle. Try mining with 20 barges for several hours a day and see if you could handle doing that every day. Without isboxer, not a chance.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2014.03.24 18:31:00 - [33] - Quote Batelle wrote: LordOfDespair wrote: Batelle wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: I would argue that many of the giant multi boxed mining fleets would disappear. 20 or 40 mining characters without software to send the clicks to all of the accounts at once? Yeah they may try, they would soon tire of it. 40 accounts? Forget it. So your solution is to discourage gameplay you don't like by making it more annoying to do (even though said discouraged gameplay is arguably "optimal?) ? Maybe the fleets get smaller, maybe a bit less prevalent. But they're not going anywhere. There is nothing backing up what you just said, it doesn't even make sense. Let me clarify. People complain about isboxer because they don't like seeing isboxed miners, isboxed gankers, or isboxed incursions. IMO Eliminating isbox will not eliminate or even severely hamper the use of multiboxing in those areas of gameplay. Some people will be discouraged perhaps, but others will continue doing what they are doing, simply with more difficulty/annoyance. . Those who try to continue without isboxer will indeed have a great deal more difficulty and annoyance and once gankers and bumpers start to interfere with them, it's over. They won't be able to cope.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 29	Posted - 2014.03.25 09:14:00 - [34] - Quote Batelle wrote: Robert Caldera wrote: Batelle wrote: Because its a really good example of something that can be done without ISboxer. theoretically everything can be done without isboxer, point is it makes it a lot more efficient and in many cases realistic. So its a good thing? If gameplay is going to be allowed, it may as well be fun/pleasant. One could argue that botting makes unpleasant game play less unpleasant. Botting is against the rules because of the advantage the software provides. Isboxer should be no different.

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